Good morning, everyone. Welcome VCA today, Thursday morning, September tenth, 2020. Appreciate everyone joining us this morning. Hope everybody's doing well. Looks like we got pretty good. Turn out, I see some folks still trickling in, so we will go ahead and get started. It is right at nine o'clock. As folks come in, we'll go ahead and emit them. Pleased to be joined this more and again by Dr. Michael Flexner, extension weed science specialist. Topic of discussion this morning is called the Palmer amaranth, going to be discussing some identification and control law that we and now's a good time traveling around the state, at least in this area. Certainly, you probably have seen that if you've been looking forward, so appreciate everyone joining us. Appreciate everyone being here and looking forward to a great presentation this morning. Dr. Laszlo, thank you again for joining us as always. Yeah, thanks. It's great to be with you guys this morning and talk about well served by his favorite We, Palmer amaranth here. So we'll get right into it on starting with identification of it here. So we have really four main pigweed species that we deal with are Emirates, feces. We deal with the Virginia's course. Smooth and rhetoric that we've had for a while and pretty used to, although now we're probably pretty used to deal with palmer, Amaranth and parts of Virginia T2. And then we also have spiny amaranth, which is more of, more of a problem in our pastures, but does getting our crop fields every now and then. And then we have some water hammer or common water have kinda out there hanging around in patches, but that's one still pretty, pretty rare in the state. So it's important to be able to identify these, not only identify him this time a year, which is a great time to scout form because Palmer amaranth has some obvious features this time of year with its seed head. But ideally we can identify when they are still very small and we can control them subtable herbicides at that time. So that one of the big differentiating things is that the stem hairiness, so smooth and red route down to why they call it smooth as Harry stems, but it's just one of those things are smooth and rhetoric have hairy stems on, I'll show you a picture on the screen and on the next slide here. But the rest of those three pigweed, water hammer, palmer, Amaranth, and spiny amaranth all have smooth stamps. And so that's kinda the first thing I look at is there, are there hairs on the stems or not? Once you have identified that, you can look at the petiole, it'll be stock length of palmer Amaranth and it's got a very long petiole. And it's palmer Amaranth. And it of course has the absence of spines which different spiny amaranth. So, so here's a picture of the stem hairiness. If you could see the screen, if you not. This is not like a Duck Dynasty beard hairiness. I understand it's more like a peach fuzz on it. So it's kinda merely grey appearance and that's smooth red route. But if it's a smooth, hairless stem, then it's, it's one of the other pigweed that could be palmer Amaranth. Here's some pictures that petiole length without the least docs. So if you can, if you take a, a mature leaf off of, off of the pigweed plant, you don't want to get one that's still growing and still expanding because the ratios may not be quite right yet. But if you go down on the planet to get a mature one, and you can pluck that leaf right off of the stem and then fold that least stock over on the leaf. If it's As long, or certainly many cases longer than the leaf itself, then that's pretty diagnostic for palmer Amaranth, if it's shorter than the length itself, then the length of the leaf then, then it's probably smoother regulated or one of the other pygmies. So early in the season before you have that seed head that's pretty key on Palmer amaranth. Those are the two features that can really get you pretty quickly to palmer Amaranth or not Palmer amaranth. But this time here we have that long terminal seed head that you can see poking up through a soybean fields as you're driving around. Just kind of looks like it's getting you the middle finger there. It can be well over a foot tall, whereas the other pigweed is generally a little bit shorter than that. And so that's, that's also very diagnostic of palmer Amaranth. So those, those are the three key features that long petiole hair the stem then that long seated to get you to palmer Amaranth. So we have it has Robbie mentioned it's it's definitely around. It's pretty much everywhere we grow soybeans in Virginia. So those are the maroon counties there and then the orange ones filled in on the map or are a couple in the Shenandoah Valley that we've seen Palmer move in there in the last year too. So it's not in every field, but it's certainly around. And it's also got a map there on the screen courtesy of Ben Diehl and Maryland, where it is, in Maryland and Delaware where they've spotted it. So it's definitely around us and can be, can be moving with with equipment, with animals, with those kinds of things, with water as well. So so it's around. I do think we need to spend a minute on the biology of this weed because appreciate it for what it is. I think our biggest mistake managing this is we tend to underestimate how how weedy he'd really is for lack of a better term. I mean this, you know, it started with developed the glyphosate resistance, probably in a couple of different instances, but first, first recognized in Southern Georgia in 2005. And so probably started a couple of years before that for they are able to recognize it and diagnose it as glyphosate resistance. But that has really opened it, created a niche for it to spread throughout our corn soybean cropping systems. All we have to North Dakota and, and, and to New York and, and out west. And so, you know, I think, I think some people think, well, you know, that's a better farmer than, than these other farmers. But this, this is one that it doesn't matter how good a farmer you are. It can definitely, if you turned your back on it for a minute, can, can really start making headway and, and getting into your operation. So so the biology of it, it's, it's native to the desert. And so you think about a desert plan, it's going to naturally be heat and drought tolerant. But then also when we get rain, it's going to grow real fast and has a really rapid growth rate under optimal conditions. It has this really prolonged germination period again, when you think of it trying to take advantage of rainfall from the desert. Whenever it rains, it's going to want to come up and that's really what it does in our systems in Virginia. So we might see as early as March coming up, but it really starts hitting the ground running in mid to late May. And then it can germinate all season long, really till we get a killing frost, but it starts to tail off this time a year in September. But we can get germination and I think we can still get some bibles, heat production really after, after we harvest or corn, something to think about. If it's out there all year, it's going to produce tons of seed and it's got a real extensive root system that it can really suck out a lot of water out of the ground. I'll see what else about it. So some of the things to think about for management is the seed are relatively short-lived in the, in the soil. Really after three to four years of good control with very little or ideally no seed return. We're going to deplete that soil seed bank to pretty much nothing at that point. So that's, I think the good news is you can come back from a real disaster with a relatively short time horizon of good management. It's not as competitive and Shane, and partly because it's coming up from that very small c, there's not a lot of energy stored in there. So getting a good crop canopy as fast as we can is important. But it does seem to be able to, once it's there, it can kinda hang out underneath that crop canopy and eventually poke its way up through. But it's not going to be this huge seed producer when it's, when it's being on, coming up from underneath that, that crop canopy. Big thing for us is it's herbicide resistant. So we pretty much I would assume you have if you have Palmer, Virginia, you have glyphosate paint ALS or group to resistant Palmer amaranth. In other parts of the world and in the US it's much worse. One notable case would be in North Carolina where they have PPO or group 14 resistance. In addition to that, when you try to think about what your herbicide programs going to look like in a glyphosate, group two and group 14 resistive population in soybeans. It gets pretty limited there. Okay, so what are the management keys? I've got six keys here and we'll go through them one by one. And these aren't really anything groundbreaking. This is really just kinda basic weed management. But with a weed as aggressive and competitive and hard to control as this one, all of these things become really critically important. So the first thing we gotta do is start clean. If we've got some little coddled Eden seedling weeds out there planting. We're already behind on the sweet and it's just not a, not a position that we can win from, honestly. So we've gotta start clean generally for our corn crop, that's pretty easy to do because we're our head of pretty much all the germination when we're putting that crop in the ground. But certainly soybean and double crops, soybeans. That's where it becomes important. So that's point number 1. Number two is to use residual herbicides at planting. We've gotta take advantage of these pre-emergent herbicides. It's really the foundation. Controlling a Swede, and I'll show you why in a couple slides. But I think we also got to think about when we put out those pre. So a lot of times we want to save a trip across the field. I get that. So you add that for you and with your burned down, he might do that to three weeks ahead of when you're actually planting, going to plant the crop. But if we can move that pre-emergence application to at planting that residual activity, the herbicide it's going to wear off over time and, but, but applying it closer to planting, we're going to take advantage of that activity further into the crop and help protect the crop more that way. So that's, that's another thing to think about. The other thing I think we really have to do with a wave that comes up all year long. And I think this year where we, at least in a lot of parts of Virginia, we kind of had that drought kind of right after we were harvesting wheat. And a lot of the crops just kinda just didn't grow for two or three weeks, right? And so we didn't get that canopy closure as much. So with Palmer amaranth trying to come up during that time, we're not getting that canopy or delaying that canopy closure. Having another residual herbicide applied along with that over the top post is going to help protect that crop up even further. And that was really critical this year in Virginia. All right, so what does the pre-emergent herbicides do for us? This is a pretty complicated graph I have on the screen, but try to explain it here. This is just the density of palmer Amaranth through time from various herbicide treatments. And so as you, as you go from a non treated control which has a lot of palmer Amaranth to the right of this slide with which moves into the herbicides that worked better on it. You know, we really reduce that density kind of 1731 days after after treatment. So if you think about putting out your pre-emergent herbicides at planting, this would be three to four weeks into the crop, which is typically when he'd come back with your post emergent herbicide. So you see that there's a lot fewer Palmer amaranth plants to have to kill post emergence when we use that pre-emergent herbicides. The other couple of things I would point out here is that really the herbicides perform best included either flew me ox is in horse Al-Fajr zone, so Fleming oxygen is going to be and valor valor XSLT in biv and several other products. So venture zone is going to be basically your authority brands and brought acts. So those are authority has, will have SSL ventures ONE hand, something else in it. So those to me are really kind of the foundation. Herbicides we need one or the other those for palmer Amaranth. The other thing that you can see here is that as we move from one site of action are one group number herbicide to a herbicide. Either through tank mixing or prepackaged mixture has, has multiple sites of action, those generally perform better. So as an example, going from valor to fears, which would be going from flew me oxygen into flaming oxygen plus paroxysmal phone residual. You know, we reduced by over 50% the number of planets out there and that field. So we're getting better control with those multiple sites of action products. And it's also good for herbicide resistance because that's really what's, it's much more difficult to develop herbicide resistance that way. Another thing though, so we reduce the density by using a pre. The other thing we do is reduce is really the ones that do escape that pre and they will eventually. And we really only get three to five weeks out of a, out of our best-performing pre-emergence options. So some are eventually going to escape, but the ones that do escape don't grow as fast. And so what's on the screen now if you, if you're following along in the screen, is the height of palmer Amaranth at a couple of times after treatment, 2431 days after treatment. And so what you want to target Palmer amaranth when it's four inches or less. And you can see those, those kind of same herbicides that works best for reducing density, also worked best for reducing the growth rate of Palmer amaranth. That gives us more time to hit in these fields and make a timely post emergence application there. So I think that's something that maybe we don't think about all the time with the residual herbicide, but something that's really critical for managing this way. So to me, this is a picture if you can't see the screen of, of a fairly recent ballgame here. And this is one that I turn off a half-time. And maybe many of you did because Virginia Tech was down 24 points at halftime here. They ended up coming back and the belt bowl here in 2016 to beat Arkansas 35 to 24. And I think a lot of us were shock. They had turn off the television. And so this was the best comeback and Virginia Tech football history. So a 127 years of football. They were able to make this come from beehive victory, right? This is, this is not really the position you want to be. And with palmer Amaranth is trying to overcome a deficit, right? Maybe in a 127 years you can overcome it and do it. But really we need to use a pre-emergent herbicide, put ourselves in a position to win that game. Okay. The other thing we talked about was understanding what is in those those pre-mixed products and the ones that have multiple active ingredients or group numbers perform better. But as we're moving into winter, hopefully, eventually after harvesting and we'll have some time to think about a herbicide program, a little more detail. One thing to think about is what is in these pre mixers, mixes and what are they doing for me? So this is a valor SCLC and I could I'm not picking on Bower XSLT, or I could use a number of herbicides for this example. But when you look at val or Excel t, the picture that plot has no weeds and which is what you want. The herbicide is working. Well. There's two active ingredients in that herbicide, valor and classic or from the oxygen and Claire Moore, I'm and so when you look at those, those two individually, you see the vowel reply. It has pot has no weeds in it, which again, so we know that the oxygen part is working. But when we look at the classic pot, it has weeds in it, right? So on a group to resistant population, the classic is not really bringing that effective site of action to the table. So while classic might be helping us and it probably is with a lot of other weeds in that field. For palmer Amaranth, it may not be bringing as much to the table. And that's something, something to think about. The, so so take some time to understand what is, what is in those pretty mixes. The other thing I mentioned earlier, there's including residual in with that post emergence application. Here's a couple of our pots at Blackstone at the Southern Piedmont direct this, this year. And the one on the left had a residual with the post emergence application. The one on the right did not. And you can see that there's, there's Palmer coming up in between those rows there. Now just sort of another side here. This is on 30 inch rows, which is good for testing a herbicide, but for production. I don't know that I'd recommend those because it takes a while to canopy, right. If we can get to 15 inches or less, we're going to get canopy a lot quicker and that's really going to help out herb sides in this case. But nonetheless here that really, the difference between these two is really that using that residual and with the post-merger herbicide, and that's what was key to keeping it clean in this, in this set of plots. Alright, so that was a lot about number two, which was using a point number two, imagine using a residual herbicide. Number three is just that timing of application. We have got to get small weeds treated, not large weeds. When you see a small Palmer amaranth like what's on the right on the screen you see all those leaves are able to intercept the herbicide. And we're going to get pretty good control that we versus the one on the right that's going on six inches tall, you see there's kind of layers, a lesion that canopy. So the herbicides only really going to hit that top layer. The other thing is when you're thinking about putting on a dosage here, an effective dose on three-inch weed is going to be a half rate on a six inch, we'd hope hopefully that makes sense, but as the week gets bigger, we're not increasing our dosage. And so cutting, one way of thinking about treating to larger weeds is basically cutting the rate on a small weed. And that's not good for control, is not good for, for herbicide resistance. That point number three is timely with our applications. Number four is do not ignore escapes. And so we've got to think about these fields, right? One or two plants. It's not too bad to go out there and handful those plants or harvest. One thing we could do, blast submitted it to some people out there is to stop the combine, get out, grab that weed, and then keep going with the combine officious, one or two plants out there. Don't run it through the Combine where you're going to spread it into that patch in year two. And, and we can easily have a disaster in, by year three, certainly by year four. If we're not recognizing that we knew weed in the field and changing our management from it. And that's been seen time and time again all over the eastern US. So and it can, it can go to a wall, the wall disaster, completely unproductive field in a very short time if we don't, we don't jump on it. So, you know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And that's something we've gotta remember here. Another thing about prevention is Hermitian harvest, and we've got these combines that they're great at getting crops out of the field, but they're also great at spreading weed seeds and we'd get these He's residue packages on him that, that really can can do a pretty good job about spreading that and chop it up all that residue. But they also can help spread those weed seeds from one plant to a whole swath and patch in the field. And so thinking about now and we're out there starting to harvest is what can we do at harvest time? Have a couple of slides about that later, but it's something to think about. Crop rotation. I think it is also something that we've gotta do. It's really Palmer is a big problem in soybeans in the state. We should have the herbicide tools to control it well and corn. But if you're not, you know, we should, we should talk about what you're doing and be on the lookout for other cases of herbicide resistance to. But we've got some options of corn in atrazine and the bleachers, that group 27's that really do a good job. But but if Warren continuously name, then it's going to be and it uphill battle there. But the more diverse we can make our rotation really the better. So I know we acreage, I guess we're down, they might be backup, but, you know, if we can get a free crop two-year rotation in there with wheat. That I think it's really the most diverse system that really capitalizes on on our markets or Virginia, but also has really good, good things for for palmer Amaranth management terms of herbicides, but also when we're putting out herbicides and changing that up from one year to the next. Crop rotation is key to this, just like it is for a lot of other important agronomic reasons. So yeah, so those are the management keys. I wanted to go over. But there are a couple of kind of things right now that we can do. We're thinking about harvest here. So one of those is, I know a lot of you are going to harvest the field and kinda way that makes sense. But if we could harvest the weed free areas first and move within that field to the weedy areas. We're not going to be spreading that we from a weedy patch into a weed free area, right? We're gonna kinda keep it where it is and that'll help it, help stop it spread. The other thing is between fields if we can clean the combine before leaving. So a leaf blower to blow a father, just kinda crowd that's on the back axle and that kind of stuff can really help out if you can get a couple bales of straw or Hey, and just run those through there. Through the combine. That'll help kind of knock out some of the weed seeds that are in there. You're probably not going to get them all. But it's something a quick, relatively quick and easy to do to try to get more seeds out there. The other thing you can do, crank up that fan speed all the way and run it for a minute or two to try to blow out those little seeds and kinda go back to where it needs to be before four harvests. So clean to combine between weed fields and nobody was talking about slowing down during harvest. But maybe we can at least take advantage of some rainy days or do some pretty easy things there before he leaves the field would be, would be definitely advisable here. When we're talking about Mon, cornstalks down, you know, the, the bush hog as something that is probably the easiest thing to clean on the farmer or close to it. But you know, sometimes we don't want to get out of that tractor and and kick that residue off or blow it off with the leaf blower. It can be a lot of weed seeds moving from one field to the extra or within the field so clean in that bush hog office. Certainly I felt that I think it's pretty easy to do and can go a long way to help prevent the spread of that. Another thing we can think about this time of year is planting a cover crop. We've seen a lot of research that these small seated summer annuals like Palmer and, and the other pigweed, these cover crops are really helping us, especially when we grow a big, good cover crop. Really helping us in our weed management because I gotta come up, do that. Shaded or filtered or sometimes really greatly reduce light. There's also this barrier and on a small c to weed that makes a whole lot of sense. And so some people are nervous about planting through this, but this is this is taylor Clark, an agent and farmer, Southside, Virginia on it with a 15 inch planner there. And he's been doing this awhile and getting a good stand. Some of you probably know, Rob hidden on the northern neck. It's a picture of his farm planting grain into some, some serial ride, some pretty, pretty high biomass stuff there. So there's farmers that if you put your mind to it, you can talk to and figure out what planner adjustments need to be made or not made in some cases to, to plant there this, but that residue can really help us out and it's just something to think about this time of year that we can do if we've had Palmer, Emory, Tn, our field. And it does help us, I'm going to kind of just jump through that for the sake of time. The other thing that we don't want to talk about, but if we do get in this disaster situation is breaking out a mall board plow. And, you know, we have all these benefits of NO2. There's some research at a Nebraska that shows a onetime tillage event doesn't do as much negative damages we think it does. But their soils are a lot different than ours. So I don't want to, anyway, I just kinda want though this out here through for dyes, mobile plow can really, if we, if we bury those seed, Palmer amaranth can't come up from from debt. That's really one or two inches in depth and it's not going to come up. So if we can, barriers may those seeds that we can, we're not gonna get them all, but we'll really reduce that stand for next year. And in if we don't cloud again for three or four years, which I think most of us would like to like to do right? To not plow. Those seeds will eventually parish down there. And so, so that's one tactic that they've used here and in the pictures on the screen here from Georgia, but that they'd use there to try to get a handle on things. And so I hope we don't have to revert to this, but that's something that's, that's, that's out there and atactic that we may not want to rule out in certain cases. So with that, I'm just going to throw up some links in the chat too, that pest management guy for field crops that has some of these tables in it, like you see. Here. We've got a column for palmer, Amaranth and water hammer. This is that the pre-emergence herbicides in corn table, but we've got a post-emergency corn. Same thing for the other, other crops as well. So, so that's a really good list of information where you can find what's gonna do well on that weed. And we also have fairly recently updated last year Palmer and control and soybean publication that kinda goes through everything I've talked about today. It has some of those efficacy tables in terms of what herbicides work well for this week. The other one to work on or if we have any cotton growers on on the on the line with us this morning, but we're soon we'll have one out here before the winter meetings. They go in for polymer, it's controlling in cotton. So hopefully I didn't go too long. There might have been like a firehose of information, but it's kinda my stump speech Here's wanted to wanted to get it all out there. But I guess if we have time for questions, we'll open up for questions now. I thank you, Dr. flies and appreciate you joining us. As always. We'll jump right into questions out. It's just checking the chat box. I just had one pop up. Mike, you want to go ahead and ask your question to Dr. posed. The question Is Liberty in combination with, with liberty link crops still a good Bible option for Palmer. I think absolutely liberties had a great option for palmer. You know, we don't know if we'll have the extend system next year or not, and the enlists system with two for D. We may not have the best maturity group still for some parts of our state. But the, but the system does have the, Of the option of liberty in that system. But I think liberty is great, but we gotta recognize that liberty is not round up. Liberty, we said a contact herbicide. So it really comes down to again, sprank small weeds and getting good coverage of those weeds where it's round up when it was work and we could we could really got kinda Brian across the field with very little spray spray water and and knockout bigger weeds because it was just so potent. But unfortunately, we just don't have a herbicide that works like that anymore. So I think liberty link is a great option and it avoids we can always get off target movement of herbicide or any pesticide, But it really is much easier and less liability concerns when it comes off target movement. So I mean, I think it's a great option that's out there, you know, I don't know that it's really any better than like a flexed our reflex or Kober alter laser. But it's definitely one that's out there and I think it's one that we really need to take more advantage of in the state. Luke asks what options are available to vegetable growers. And so I'm not the vegetable specialist, but certainly you're, you're much more limited in your herbicides there. If it's a vegetable that you can use, something like Dual N or S Mottola HClO_4. That's going to go a long way for you. But if you're looking at like a or our metric views in, in tomatoes would be a good option pre-emergence for you, but it really limited on, on selective options, especially because of ALS resistance. So something like say India is going to be ineffective for us against polymers. So yeah, it's trying to keep that seed bank low and handful and or a road going out the weeds are keep in that seed rain from going back to the soils is going to be even more critical, more limit our options are. The more critical, just, just keeping a oh, hello, seed bank I think really is for, for management of these with Michael. One question that I get pretty commonly this time a year he talked about going out and scouting fields, looking for road plants and stuff. At what point, you know, I've had this conversation with some folks. At what point do you tend to see those seeds becoming viable? Because if you go out, you know, when you start, first, start to see the seed head emerges, you know, those seeds or developing odder, still Green. I know it changes from year to year as you know, a definite date by which they would be mature. What do you typically recommend if somebody obviously if they see it and have had the ability to, to remove it. But at what point does those seeds really actually become viable for next season? Yeah, I think that's a good question and I think you're right, that it's definitely going to vary by year, but it's generally within two weeks of the first flower that you see. You will have either Bible seeds or seeds that are mature enough that they'll dry down and become viable even if you remove those from the plant. And so, you know, or definitely well into where this time here when we have viable sees on the plant. So it's, I think it's still worthwhile to remove those because, you know, we're still going to get more seed production for the next month or so on. A lot of that, a lot of those palmer Amaranth plants. So I've I've seen, you know, it's funny what the plan will do under stress. You know, again, I think part of that's back to its desert natures. And if it does get stress, what it wants to do is keep that life cycle going. And so I've seen it flower and put on a seat had I didn't see any viable seeds on it. I've seen that in May. I kinda like it came up and then it got cold again and the planet just kind of thought it was, it needed to go to seed, prolong the species there. So, so you can get those kinds of things that happen. But I think mostly, you know, in our crop situations, you know, certainly like July we need to be on the lookout for. Certainly in August are going to have some Bible seed on the plant and it's just going to kind of grow into September. But so if you're, if you've got some plants out there and you want to try to eliminate seed production. Yeah, if you see a flower, you know, like I said, you've got maybe one week to do something about it. Or it's going to start putting on on Bible seed. And I'll follow up to that. Michael. Always recommend that folks don't just pull it up and throw it right on the ground. And if you take it out of the field somewhere and remove it because those seeds may have the potential to be viable. Yeah, I think that's an excellent point. And, you know, if you're, if you're, even if you're pulling before you have a flower or a seat on the planet, it's, it's a good idea to at least try to stand it up right where the roots are up in the air and not near the ground because it can reroute and stand back up and keep crow. And I've learned that when the hard way, it's not fun porn handful and a field wants and certainly it's not fund the second time. So make sure you get those plants out of the field. Hey Rob, I got one last question. Sarah might duck less than when you pulled his course Palm was an annual. You break off of major route. Say one, you can see when you pull it up, you're missing a route, a good-sized will it come back from that one root? Yeah. How? Happy Baggett and roots out. So I haven't seen it come back from a root, but I don't really know. I don't think you can. But that's I'm not a 100% positive on that. I know if you come out there like with a machete and hack it off at the ground. It can basically stumps, Froude almost like a tree. So you definitely want to pull up and get at least that the roots, it'll come up with the Stand there, but I don't think it'll come back from if you left a good chunk of root and that is how at least I haven't seen it. I didn't think so. I'd pool them and one of the main roots did break all, but I kept down we'll replace that can keep an eye on and they never did come back. And I was just curious. Good. Dog, plasma. Yes, Arab tailor. What are the odds that we'll have the bank that you end up have an extend flag seed available this year, but not not the existing at crop. Trying to predict, I guess would well, the EPA for the extend product and what the European Union is going to decide when they're both going to do that for the for the seat on this. That's that's a tough question. And I know a lot of people are anxious to know the answer to that. Because it's about time to start thinking about what kind of varieties and say, do we want to buy for next year? Yeah, I know that Bayer thinks that they're going to have the seed in place for next year, please, extremely optimistic about it. The EPA in election year on the, on the product side of things is really tough to predict. Certainly, you know, there's, there's a lot of I guess there's there's a lot of interests on both sides to have it re register or to not have a registered. But yeah, it's a tough question. I wish we had more maturity groups to really cover the state with on the Unless side because I think that's really the system we know is going to be in place and can give us just as good a control with a 240 as as that I can be. So but yeah, it'd be nice to know. I guess I don't have anything to say about that, Taylor. I'm sorry. That but we need we're going to have to make decisions pretty quick. And then as it mean, is at any possible way that Labor Day, Labor Day or E3 beans has the production to meet the demand for those gum and E promised. See, sample. Yeah, I'm not a seeds men and I should be, I guess more in tune with that side of things. But from my understanding is that there, there are going to try to meet the demands for those maturity groups that, that they have. But like I said, I know I've talked to some people that they want, you know, once you get into the 5s are on up from there, you really start run ad options with the enlist E3 system. So I got a, I think a few early fours and mid-40s, but start run. And now, as we get further in state where we wanted to plant those those group fives and such, but I don't know if maybe anywhere in the caulk and comment more intelligently than me on that. But that's what I'm here for. My side of things. New. Doctor, wasn't the the products that you talked about? Valor and et cetera, did they have any they work also on SAT, marriage, stale and ragweed. They had some sort of effect on those as well. That I'm saying. All those in the field. Some of the pig we are 8-bit and some farmer. Sure. It's a it's a good question, I think. Yeah, definitely like marriage tail and can common ragweed are part number 23 weeds. If not, maybe ragweed might be. Number one had a Palmer's fires problems and soybeans in the State of Virginia. So in general, the devour insult ventures on products are going to be as good as you can do on the ragweed. But they're not going to be as good as they are on Palmer. So I'm thinking they expect to see you're 90% or better from those products on Palmer, I'm think in 7580% on rag or just because it's a larger seed and it's got more energy, a little more punch to it to get through some of those, some of those products, but those are basically among the best you can apply for ragweed. For the mayor's tail. I haven't seen a whole lot of germination once we get into the soybean crop. So to me really the key, I think a lot of residual herbicides that we're going to use are going to work pretty well on marriage tail. So I don't know if there's really one to specifically caught and recommend, but I would say our problems with Marcell are usually when we, we think we kill it in the burned down, but we don't and it comes back. So will something will pair a quad or sharp in on, on too large of a mayor's tail will kill all those leaves and brown it up and then plant soybeans. And then a week after that, we start seeing all those sprouts coming out of the out of the stand that wasn't quite dead. And so to me, really marriage tails more about killing it. Before we plant planner soybean crop, it is a residual control in their pants. They're saying paired Quad, it's probably the best way to kind of move towards plat, varying as well. And so they are with buttons up males in Paris. Why maybe it's the best option for bar now, will not, not necessarily has to try. That's just an example of one contact activity that we think it's dead and then then maybe it's not if we get on bigger weeds, but I mean, to me and the Burndown glyphosate into 40, It's really tough to beat for, for the money. Pair quiet and sharpen. And 240 and pretty much all the options work really well on the rows that stage, Mayor Taylor, horse weed. But once it starts to bowl, they all kinda start diet at all. The herbicide options kinda get reduced and their ability to kill that we'd, but if you do have some that are, are tall, that's really when we need to move to like away from a contact herbicide like para quiet and sharpen can even Liberty move away from those two to 40 or I can buy product. Because as there are going to do a little bit better on the larger mayors tail, but but everything has its limits. Michael, appreciate you joining us as always. Thank you again for your time. Great. 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