Thank you for joining us this Thursday morning to last second, 2020, for the next edition of VCA. Today. Today's topic is going to be management of herbicide resistant weeds. We're also going to have some updates from our guest speaker, Dr. Michael Flexner extension. We specialists work. We're glad to have Michael with us as more. Thank you for joining us and he's going to provide some updates on some summer. We manage mental somebody's resistant weeds that we may be experiencing in some of our, especially soybean fields. And also touch on a little bit of some of the legislative updates on some of the over-the-top Da Camera products. And that's kind of been a topic of discussion over the past week or two. So just provide some updates on that and as well as some recommendations moving forward. So with that being said, I appreciate everybody joining us this morning. Without further ado, Michael, we appreciate you joining us this morning than the floor is yours. Good morning, everybody. And greetings from blacks Berg pressure change b here. And we'll just get right into it here. So hard to believe. It's it's been almost a month. Sense the DeCamp and news came out where the Ninth Circuit Court in California vacated the registrations for three products for ingenious extend, Emacs, and effects of pan. And so that kind of put us into this spiral of, of not knowing, can we apply these or can we purchase these are we're going to be able to get more of them. And so some states started saying, well, we haven't heard anything from the EPA, so you can apply it until we hear from the EPA. Some states said the opposite of that is that the Court said we can't we can't use it. So you can't use it. We heard from VDD acts that following Monday after the news broke on, I guess is like Wednesday, but really Thursday that we could continue to apply in Virginia to. We heard the anything further from the EPA? Well, it was only about eight hours after that. The EPA came out with the statement anyway. But I do want to clarify only I got several questions of this impact. Other formulations of dye Cambodia like things we use in corn rather that status or die flexor pastures with clarity and such. And, and the answer is no, it only affects these three products. And so there's EPA came out with this statement, which I think helped us get gave us some guidance. But then it also has still been interpreted it in a few different ways. And so I've got on the screen there, I think they are relevant language from that statement. And it's really this two part c that if you're on the call and can't read this, the where I think some of the different interpretations come from. That's the distribution or sale by commercial applicator. And if your AG retailer considers themselves a commercial applicator, and certainly in many cases they do commercial applications. It says they are allowed to sell it. Some AG retailers say they fall under part B, which is just a person other than the registrar, and therefore, they're only allowed to move it to Return it to the registrar or dispose of it properly. So so I've talked to several AG retailers or last couple days and I can tell you that they are all kinda interpreting this, certainly. So the best advice I can say if you're trying to find out Campbell is call around, you know, you probably got your go to one, but they don't have it. You might be able to find it somewhere else. So some are selling it. Somebody said we're not sell it anymore. Some are saying we're only doing applications of it. We're not going to sell it to the customer to apply. So it really is a kind of a very landscape out there. So I guess what does that mean for everybody is that your product is probably difficult to find, and it may be impossible to find in some cases. And so if you are going to rely on DICOM and don't have it in hand and you're gonna want to get on the phone pretty quick, or you're gonna have to look at some alternatives and we'll go into that with what those could be here in a couple slides or a couple minutes. If you have it though, everybody has to use it by July 31st. There's no and no one's allowed or any uses are allowed after July 31st. There's sort of one possible exception of that for TV. So Tavia is Syngenta is pre-packaged mixture of dye, Kanban dual or S metallic core. And that was not part of the lawsuit. So it is the only camp a product that you could put over the top of extend beans or extend flex codon that will be allowed to pit is allowed to be sold without any restrictions we've talked about. But the big butt here is that KVM on the label says Use and double crop soybean is not allowed. So, so that's, that's the big catch there. And the other thing is this taping is probably in short supply. The AG retailers I talked to said they have some on hand, but, you know, the levels really varied by which which location I'm going, which retailer we were talking about. But sound like there are some Tavia mouth there. And that could, could be an option if diff, EQ, standard Eugenia effects of Penn aren't out there. So what are the alternatives? When this came out a month ago, I was like, man is pretty light to change what soybean you're planting and now it's super late. But I'll, I'll mention it again. If you have you had to plan, you might consider changing to liberty link ALL GET 27 4D enlist soybean. Certainly I don't know if there's any cotton growers are server serves on the call, but that's been planted already. But, but what that allows you to do is get some liberty link. Well, by liberty of course in you needed a liberty link or allergy 27 beans as well as in Lesbians. And then lists, you have the option of two for d. So it gives you some different options for control of some of our resistant weeds like Palmer and ragweed. And last I heard from seed suppliers, they still had some of those that made sense for our geography on hand. But I think probably vast majority has probably already have these Roundup ready to extend soybeans in the grounds for it. And that's the dominant trait that's out there. So if you have Palmer amaranth are common ragweed has in your field, that's going to really be a driver. Wait, I don't need Tell you that or you don't need to hear from me. But to me the best option in those situations is going to be flexed RGT, which is really what we're using a lot of. Before we had the extend system and have continued to use that. And I really like that because it has the finesse fit in their tape to get rid of the Palmer O ragweed. It also has the glyphosate premix in there to get rid of the rest of the weeds in your field. Of course of life states not gonna do much to Palmer and ragweed because they're resistant to it. But the other thing that the film S1 has his summers, that soil residual activity, particularly for palmer, That's very helpful because it's going to continue to try to emerge as long as there's heat and moisture. And we're going to have the head for several more months here before the season's over. So that to me, you know, how those things kinda makes it this kind of an easy go-to product over certain other things that I'll talk about in the next slide. But, but the other thing I would say, just don't expect Clive. Clive say products round up or what have you or the ALS regrouped to products like synchrony, first-rate Classic, and others to work. We'd just have widespread resistance to those four, Palmer and ragweed. And so that's really what's driven us to, to flex star or to the extent beans to begin with. So if you, if you see the screen, I just switch to a slide showing what's in our pest management guide. Really kinda cut this table down to what I thought was relevant for the call. So it fit on the screen here, but you see the ingenious extend max column there is grayed out because that's sort of what we're trying to replace. And then the yellow or maybe orange cells there. Those are ones where those are those are grouped to ALS products or glyphosate that we have resistance to. And so those numbers in, in reality are probably a lot lower than, than what you see up there then. But the green and the darker the green Canada, the hierarchy, how would tend to recommend that silicon at Palmer, Yeah, you're looking at a nine out of ten as far as efficacy writings for cobra, grief flux or flux to our ultra blazer and select star GT. And again, I'd kind of like leaning toward the flexed RGT for this whole residual activity. And it's got the glyphosate to erode the other weeds over those, those other products. But all those group for protein products to me work equally well. A lot of complaints on, on cobra about the extra burn you see on the soybean leaves. But I can tell you we have we've never seen a yield reduction comparing clover clever cobra to reflex or ultra blazer. Certainly there's more cosmetic, which there, but the key to those group 14 herbicides, and this is probably the biggest thing to make these things work. It's, it's really all about the timing and the coverage. They work really well when we spray him on small weeds, certainly to to four-inch weeds. We can take down pretty easily with those, but it's not going to be liked. I cam if you sprayed that where you can push it to load that larger weeds? Course, I don't recommend that, but it's got a little bit stronger ability to take down a larger pigweed than, than this group 14. So, so you gotta get on small ways that the timing, the other thing is the coverage. You know, we really need to have, in my opinion, 15 gallons of water per More to get adequate coverage with those twenties. Good. I don't see a need to go to 25, but if that makes your calibration easier for you than than than have at it. But yes. So the getting the coverage of those is really important, which is really, you know, if you've had your sprayer setup for board, I Canva. And you had those big course droplet nozzles in there. That's required by those labels. Those are not the kind of nozzles and coverage you really want for a group 14 herbicide. Or if you're making a switch, if you've got a liberty blink switch, delivery variety and are spraying liberty coverage is important there too. So so timing and coverage are critical to making these alternatives work. With Palmer and with common ragweed rag, we pretty much kind of the same alternatives there. The one exception is I don't know if we have anybody on the call from the eastern shore, but we highly and we haven't confirmed it clinically yet, but I'm almost certain we have PPO resistance or group 14 resistance on eastern shore, it seems closer to Maryland you are, the more likely it is to be in your area. And so then then you're really kind of up a creek without a paddle as as the saying goes, because cobra reflex alter blazer, fluxed RGT, all those are our group 14 base herbicides. And so PVAd extend beans in the ground. You really, you really have to find some dye Canvas somewhere. Otherwise you're probably going to have those things escape. Anya, I included a couple other weeds kinda on down in that table. The morning glories one thing. A lot of first-rate and Roundup goes out if Morning Glories our problem. And that's a great combination for for morning glory. But if you are on that first rate being an ALS product out with ragweed and or polymer or even marriage tail. It's just, it's just not going to happen because we have such widespread resistance to those. So we do have our pest management God that has this table and has, has even, even more weeds and information in it. So there's a pest management guy that has more of the Senate. And then like I said last time model is on VC AG Today I mentioned needs to extension publications about controlling common ragweed and palmer Amaranth, both in its soybeans. And these are both updated within the last year. So it's got a lot of good good information on the latest herbicide recommendations. So I went out, I would recommend those sources of information to try to help control those. And I guess we're moving right alongside you all thought about pausing here to, to take questions, but maybe we'll go ahead and dive into the sort of the more nuances of this ruling and then come back to questions. So and this is sort of getting into the crystal ball. Try to are we going to have this next year? And so basically the court ruled that FIFRA, the Federal Insecticide, there's errors and as an aside, act was violated. Because because they they did not they did not adequately, I guess, determined that there was not a significant increase in the risk of adverse effect on the environment. And so they, they specifically pointed out three risks that were substantially understated and then three additional risks that weren't even really considered by the EPA. It's that you can see those on the screen that the ones that were understated was the amount of DT soybean acreage in 2018 and then the subsequent amount of dye camera that was being applied. So they just didn't take into effect how much dike Campbell is going to be going out or didn't adequately predict that they seem to be agnostic. Formal complaints of dye Campbell were damaged. Camera Danish were under reported or over-report. And that was a big debate of, well, you know, some of this I can't damage as being blamed on camera and it's not dike handbook. And certainly some of it was tried to be blamed on things that weren't di camera and it was di gamba. And the EPA just sort of said, well, just coffee there, hands up on that one said, you know, we're not really early. No, we're not going to dig in deeper to try to find out. So the court did not appreciate that the EPA refused to estimate the dot came a damage in spite of record evidence of substantial and undisputed damage. And so that the EPA said, you know, we don't really know what the extent of the damages because it could be this, that, or the other. And there's all these ongoing state investigations. And so they they didn't really dive into that question. And the court thought that because they didn't do that, they substantially understated that risk. And then the other the three risks, I think are some things that have been pointed out in the ag media and by several University Extension Weed specialists for awhile now. And that was one of those is the high likelihood that the label would not be followed. Another one is substantial effects on anti-competitive economic effects, right? So in certain states, I don't know that Virginia has necessarily been one of these. In my opinion, it hasn't been, but some states it was basically your option. If you have PPO resistances, you've gotta plant extend seat soybeans or liberty soybean. And if you plan on liberty main, You're going to get di gamba damage. And so a lot of farmers went to extend beans just because of that insurance policy of not getting di gamba drifted onto their veins. And so there's that anti-competitive effect that was that was out there in the end, the court says EPA needs to really consider that. And then the last point was this social fabric farming communities. What kind of agriculture do we want to have? Certainly, you know, it's tough to grow grapes or peaches or kinda thing around, around a big soybean production area. That's fine. A lot of di camera just because of the off-target movement of it. So those are the things that the court didn't like. Yeah, I really thought the court pointed out some relevant things here, but the timing was pretty much tone deaf, so it is what it is. Luckily, I think that the, the the existing stocks provision has really helped us going to get to this season. The court did not rule on whether the registration violated the Endangered Species Act. And so that's kind of still out there, but you see the link up there if you want to see that that whole court ruling, but that's that's kind of the summary. And so that's probably way too much background information, but Trying to get some background information on this. We'll we have extend soybean next year, or will we have extended max ingenious infects a pan next year. And so one thing to keep in mind is that all of these had a conditional registration that was going to expire at the end of this year on December 20th, 2020. Whether that's KVM or send a max and junior facts at hand are all going to expire. So the EPA was going to have to basically go through preregistration or another conditional approval process at before next season anyway, regardless of this court ruling. So if what I would predict is that we probably will have a dye came a product next year. But the EPA is going to have to address those points that the court pointed out. Right. So there's going to be some additional hoops they have to jump, jump through to get these products registered. And so that might mean in turn we have some more additional hoops to jump through, right? We already have the training and the nozzles and the tank mixtures and all these other things with these products, we might have some more of that. So you can, you can say this is a really difficult thing to work with and I would agree with you, but I guess I would say I do appreciate EPA for trying to make all trying to address some of these concerns while also giving us a technology to control the weeds that we absolutely need to control. So, so I think we will, but certainly I don't have a crystal ball. Will this ruling affect other technologies? One thing, the list would be the most similar one, right? You just basically swap out to 40 and I Cambodian and there's your system, okay? But enlists did not get this two-year conditional registration like DICOM, but it got a full registration. And so I think that kind of weighs in on this, that I think it's going to be harder for that to be impacted. The enlist mainly because probably we haven't had the acreage out there, but it has not had the level of issues that extend certainly has. And so that's that's certainly working in its favor. And enlist is not affiliated with Monsanto like the extend system is or was, as the case may be. So, you know, the, these, these activist groups, Monsanto just gets them go and unmotivated and Fund's role. And so lawsuits tend to happen around that. The other thing is, is Tao. Tao would still get flack about agent orange, even though that's really a I want to get into that, but that was, that was sort of a hot button for activist groups. And so now that it's Cortes, maybe there's some space there, maybe not. So I I don't, I don't think it's going to directly impact these technologies, but certainly I don't think we've seen the ends of these types of lawsuits, especially out they've, they've kind of found a way in, if you will, a path to follow through the courts to, to get some rulings that they want to see. So, so I hope we have these technology. I think we need these technologies. And I think it also really under, underscores that the fragility of where we are with herbicide resistance right now. And we've really got to steward these herbicide product. So anyway, I'll get off the, the soapbox here and that's all I really wanted to talk about. But I am happy to entertain questions that people have out there and maybe get back to how are we gonna kill these weeds. We appreciate you joining us again this morning. Thanks for the great update. We know some farmers, at least in our area, are busy trying to finish up getting a double crop acreage planted and small bringing out. So we'll be glad to send this recording out to those producers so they can get this information and share it with others. It, they founded a benefit. So we thank you for joining us. Really appreciate your efforts and time with us this morning. Yeah, absolutely. I hope everybody gets everything done in the field so that we can all enjoy good force to appreciate. Yes, sir. Thank you. Just just a few closing comments. And you see on your screen right now our evaluation link. If you'd join us today or if you've joined us in the past for this program, if you would just take just a couple of minutes, it should take less than five minutes to complete that evaluation for us and let us know how you think the program is. If there's anything we can do to address topics or issues that you may would like information on all of that to help improve the program. We would really appreciate it if you could take just a few seconds to complete that at your leisure, if you would. And then also, we appreciate everybody join us and then we've got next week on the screen. You can see there our topic is going to be corn and soybean diseases. We're going to have some of our pathology specialists within extension token or some of those season NCEES and diseases for corn and soybeans, and maybe some management techniques and options for those diseases. So it's going to be next week, Thursday, July ninth. Same same length, same phone number at nine AM. So if he could help us disseminate that and enjoin us, if you would. So with that being said, I appreciate everybody join us IS more than I'd just like to take a few seconds and thank the team of agents that make this effort possible. Mike broadest, Stephanie ROM, or check, and her summer interns. Scholars want lower maxi nay, and her summer intern Shelly Underwood and Mr. Jones, Coburn, nor thermal and in Lancaster County. We thank thank them all for all their efforts to make this possible. So thank you all again for joining us. And with that being said, we hope everybody has a great fourth of July holiday. Stay safe, stay healthy, and hopefully we'll see you again next week. Take care.