All right. >> Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the May seventh, 2020, Thursday morning, May seventh, BCA. Today session. Appreciate everybody join us this morning. >> Today's topic is going to be commercial vegetable production. And we're pleased to be joined by two virginia cooperative extension and Virginia Tech specialist this morning, Dr. Tom cohort are Extension entomologist and Dr. Steve ride out, Extension plant pathologist. >> And they're going to share some updates with us this morning from some of their research and developments that they'd had in commercial vegetable production. >> So by Dr. two hall, We appreciate you join unless we'll go ahead and get started with you this morning. >> And I believe we've got tian needed, so we're good to go. And if you have a presentation dot cuckoo out, we'd be glad to allow you to share the screen for that as well. >> So thank you for joining us this morning. >> Okay. Thank you, Ravi. Alright. >> Well, good morning everybody. >> I'm going to start with this slot right here because it's a question that I get almost every year, usually sometime in the month of March or april. We definitely had a warm winter care. >> Where you are in Virginia. >> It was warm enough that it's going to probably impact insects. >> Now would be a foal to say I can predict which insects you're going to be high or low. But there're definitely some things when we, when we don't have these severe freezing temperatures, like when a polar vortex or or something like that comes through. Because we are situated where we are in Virginia, were kinda on that borderline of a southern state in a you know, you get into the mountains, it's a little more like the northeast because we're kind of on that cusp, right on that border that the winter really can, can drive some things and just a couple of things to be aware of. >> And then I'll going to talk about some insecticide updates and how they might impact some of these insects that I'm mentioning. >> But if you're going to get higher survival, over-wintering survival of insects. >> That's because it doesn't reach those, those, those levels that are going to be deadly to the insects Morgan to survive that's effect. So insects like corn earworm, that's one that's right now a pupa. >> The soiling skewed to the right. And that's one that, you know, when a cold winter, we're not going to get many over-wintering corn earworms there. Most of them are going to come up from the south and get here later. >> I would bet we will have a good mix of Virginia corn earworms this year that just survived and that pupal stage, some insects are gonna get a lot earlier start. So trips, trips are definitely one of them. >> These are, these are insects that if you have a lot of winter annual weeds, which I'm guessing specially in Southside Virginia or some other areas that there was just a lot of flowering weeds that might have been around throughout the winter. >> The trips thrive on that. >> They can build up their populations and then be ready come springtime to start moving on to some of the, some of those early, early vegetable seedlings that are coming out. And then you got insects like Harlequin bug. >> This is a southern pest, and this southern test definitely overwinter here in Virginia. >> And whether it survive the winter is going to be dependent upon temperature. >> So I would bet you're going to have the southern Best did very well in some brassica fields. So these are some things early, early that we might be keeping, keeping a watch on. >> I'm going to get into some, let me move this thing out of my way. >> I'll get that. >> They kinda right in a way where I wanted to talk. There's Benson, as many of you are aware, some, some big time shake-ups. Any agro chemical industry. Some big mergers like DuPont and tao, two powerhouses of become Cortez. >> And because of that, FMCG acquired a lot of pesticides, especially insecticides that were from those companies. >> Then you had the bear and Monsanto merger. >> So these are some big things. >> So what does this mean? Why am I even bringing this up? >> Well, there's not a lot of new new insecticide product. >> Steve, ride out Can, can I don't know what he's going to say about fungicides, but because they're resolve this big time mergers and things that accompanies we're not moving forward with some product development. We probably are going to see that down the road. But there was a lot of other things they were worried about. >> And so we've not seen a lot of new, new stuff come out. >> I would like to talk about lords ban or clip here of false. This is an insect, insecticide that last year I was betting that we were going to lose it. It was going to be gone. >> Just seemed like the writing was on the wall that political movements for we're definitely that this things gotta go. Yeah, it's an older organophosphate and VPA surprisingly did not ban it. >> They're going to revisit this in 2022. >> But for now, from a legal standpoint with the EPA lawyers ban is is as usual, however, the company Cortes now that manufacturers lords ban, they're no longer going to make it. So that's the primary company. >> But they're 70 generic formulations of third pure thoughts. And those, I have no idea where they're being made, but they're being made somewhere. >> And there I mean, you can get on the internet and buy a jug of Kurt Bureau floss. >> I don't know where it's coming from, but it's got all kinds of names and growers can still get it and it's generic. >> So that's, that's kind of a status with that one. A lot of people have had some questions about that. >> And one area that, that is expanding, it's the dynamite. These, these have been around for about ten years now, really fit in well with vegetable production because they're extremely safe for mammals and a lot of lot of non-target effects as well. Or a gym is probably one of the most popular ones, but we have a lot more. Now I'll talk, I'll talk about very market a minute are van't has a new dynamite that's come out. The latter ones that have come out since Corrigan are a little more broad spectrum. >> They're not just killing lapse, they're killing their killing some other insects that, that fit in, but still bringing a lot of the reduce non-target effects. >> And Syngenta, it's got a whole slew of products that mix a, mix a dynamite that's encourage, and with some of their other insecticides like, like neonicotinoids, you can have a transplant. >> Rancher >> Navigation with theory. Though besiege is a very, very popular product. >> It's got DMI plus lambda psi. >> Hello friend, pyrethroid. >> So this is a, this is a big market for vegetables and, and dynamize, I think have a, have a really big fit because of their, their safety profile. And I get into, this is a slide that I forgot who sent it to me, but it came from the northern neck of Virginia. >> And this is a problem that's happening early season and it's happening around Virginia. This is obviously a transplant that's dying of something. If you, she pulled that up. >> This is a, this is a culprit That's, that's happening. These are magnets that are crawling out of that. >> It's cabbage Megan. >> And obviously that's a pretty signifigant deal. After you've planned, your seedlings start to die. >> And problem is at that point there's nothing you can do just a little bit about this pest. >> It's a tiny, tiny fly, smaller than a house fly, but otherwise kind of a slender house fly looking thing. It flies around the peak time that the adults are active mating and laying eggs and fields is when the wild mustard or wild radish or are flowering. >> So when you see that happening and you're planting, you kinda know that there's going to be flies around. They like kinda high organic matter and moist, moist springs. That can be a lot, a lot of a problem. >> Things that plants not growing, but the flies are developing very well. >> I brought that went up because the whole third pure foss issue was was arising last year and it looked like that was an insecticide. >> So I was even ask how important is for pure phos, do we have alternatives? >> I was actually asked that question and my answer was, We do have alternatives, but there are some pests, some very specific situations where there is nothing better than clerk pure foss left for growers. >> And cabbage maggot is one of those. It just as a really, really effective insecticide, it works, it works fantastic as a soil insecticide Wars band. >> So that is one that if you put that down pre-plan really can alleviate those cabbage mega problems that you don't know when it's gonna happen. >> So having something that can last, that you can put down preventative way. >> So that was an inside. >> That's why I brought that went up. Some alternatives include switching do with pyrethroid like bifan through an OR very remark that the dynamite et al, I'll talk a little bit about the latter. Very mark. >> So this is, this is one that is starting to, when it first came out, it was, it was a bit expensive and I don't think a lot of growers were adopting it, but now you have issues like lawyers band, you have maybe the price coming down a little bit. And this is, this is an alternative, it's just more expensive. So, and it's a lot, lot safer to mammals and beneficial insects. >> So I'm gonna move on to talking about neonicotinoids because this one's not not going away. It seems like every meeting that I go to, there's discussion about Nian next. That's been going on for about >> A good ten years now. >> So yeah, many of you know what they are. You know, some of the popular products at admire platinum, some that you may not be as familiar with but probably showed or are the dine at Def, Juran's venom scorpion. And I'm going to get to those in a second. Clothing ended in is primarily a seed treatment, but the lie as a vegetable product as well and a sale which is active ingredient. A CDA method is much different than the other knee Annex one. It's not systemic, it's not applied as a soil insecticide, it's just foliar. >> But the other big thing is it's, it's over a 100 fold less toxic the bees than other NEA neck. >> So it has its, it has its niche. >> Okay, where are we with this mnemonic situation? >> Just kinda third downs or some, some bullet points. One, they still are the most commonly used insecticide class in the world. >> Why is that? Well one there? >> Because of their systemic nature and how well they work as seed treatments and soil trenches. And because of their incredibly low mammalian toxicity at 12 punches allowed them to just fit into all kinds of niches and vegetables being a definite one. >> Research has shown that, yes, a soil applied, me and Nick can end up in pollen and nectar. Although the levels are extremely low and probably the greatest risk to pollinators is the foliar sprays, and legislation is trying to cut that down. It's been on the BOD, it's been on a lot of Munich labels from the get-go. >> You should not be applying these when plants are in bloom, but people did. And when they did knew next got banned. So, you know, that's the issue with the bees is just if you follow the directions, it's it's, it's less of a concern, but there's been some new research. >> It's just showing that because we view so many of them so often on the same soils were starting to build up levels. >> And what are the what are those levels of an insecticide mean? I think these are long-term studies that are just starting to show that this is probably not the best idea. Whatever, we just start dumping things preventively, regularly into the environment. >> It often comes back to haunt us. >> And I think that's where we're at with new next. It's just the sheer over, over use of them is probably going to come back to haunt them and us say because of that, some countries and states, obviously you're aware of this, have, have banned their use. However, there's a lot of research has said, has shown that in areas where they've banned their use, there has been increase use of more were broad spectrum and probably more damaging insecticides. So you got to spray it more often. So his had been a good thing or a bad thing. >> You know, that's, that's up for, up for debate. >> The other big concern with vegetable growers is that regardless of how you feel about him, if your market where you're selling is not going to allow new index to be used on the produce, then it's going to hurt you in a big way. You can't use them at all if you want to sell there. So it's a big topic, one that's not going away. Wanted to just seems to keep changing. >> But I just like to >> Remind people of is really what they are. You know, you can kind of have your own opinions of him, but they have filled a mention of vegetables and one that I don't know whether to too many other things have or we have regroup replacements. For a, just an example, colorado potato beetle larvae will absolutely divine devour plants in areas of Virginia. You won't have any plants left on the eastern or if you plant without treating for Colorado Potato Beetle. >> These are all neonicotinoids, flatten them, admire them, put down on the CP set at just at really low rate. >> And we're up at 7080 days after planting and still, you know, extremely low numbers of potato beetles on those, on those plants. >> It's just still works very, very well that by the way, that tactic for controlling potato beetles replaced several sprays of carbamates and organophosphates that growers were using prior to that. So just that that was kind of a, you know, to see where Nia next have fit in vegetables. I think people have to have an appreciation for it as we're talking about legislation restricting their use. >> And here's another one, cucumber beetles. This, this is one that again, that what is this? When are we going to mean? Probably more cucumber beetles adults over winter. And they, they, they come out of leaf litter or field residue. And males will find plants and call and other, other Beatles with their aggregation pheromone. And pretty soon you get a field that's just devoured by these things. Really, really hard to spray, really, really hard to watch your field and know when they come in and the time it and to spray a little tiny seedlings with foliar spray. >> So here's just some more than a cucumber. >> Beetles can come back and feed on the fruit later. >> Some plants are susceptible to bacterial Well, so I don't have to convince most people that cucumber beetles are a big deal. But what may I next have meant to q curve it production to be able to put a little bit of transplant drenched of neonate gets annoyed and F, protection for about 30 to 45 days against this beetle. >> And the bacterial wealth that it can transmit has been, has been tremendous. >> And putting it down that early, it's just really, really miniscule levels. >> And the parts per billion it's going to end up in, in the, in the flowers later. >> So it's, it has its fit, it has its role still and putting it on a, as a seek treatment. >> By far more. >> At 400, you're basically buying seeds like pumpkin seeds. >> And you're already protected against cucumber beetles for about three weeks after planning. >> So I'm just giving you examples. >> Flea beetles, these are a number, early season test had a student researching them and they can certainly do a lot of the foliation, Brett brassicas, or attack them as well as things like eggplant. These are different flea beetles that attack. >> There's two classes of vegetables, but they both do the same thing. And which is they can cause yield loss, that early feeding defoliation. >> Hershey later the research by my student James Mason has shown that if you let that feeding damage get past 25% on that seedling, it's gonna it's gonna affect yield later. If you put a soil drench down when you put put your eggplant transplants or your, or your Brassica transplants, you're getting really, really good control of this flea beetles. And what I wanted to show you on this slide here, here's three NAND, or here's two neonicotinoids. >> Admire pro and Bentham and very marks the dynamite. You can just see where venom, which is DynaTAC Kiran, is kinda lasting up until the middle of June. >> These were transplants that went down in 22nd of May. That's better than we're getting out of admire Pro. >> So if you've not considered Dinah teff Iran as an neonicotinoids. >> It does seem to last longer in some, in some systems. I'm going to just talk about another stink bugs or another one. And neon next actually work very well against stink bugs. This is Harlequin bug, as mentioned earlier. >> This kind of Southern bug pests that can really attack the brassicas. And had a student and yeah, the same neonicotinoids and especially Dinah Typhaon can give you a good almost a month or sometimes over a month control against these bugs, which is just a really, really good way to go for some growers. >> But there's still the concerns over over neonicotinoids. So I'm going to so if you don't use them, if for whatever you've decided on, I'm against these are I cannot use these more than worser than not. You're probably going to switch to sprays at pyrethroids, which do kill those same pests I just went through except for Colorado Potato Beetle. >> But they do get the job done there. >> Foliar sprays, and there's a lot of them out there and they're cheap. What's the drawback? Drawback is huge. >> You are going to kill a lot of natural enemies, a lot of non-target insects that research is showing. >> I mean, you've got some growers that are planting flowers to enhance these populations of these, these organisms. >> And then when you got to think that the best thing you can do is not spray hit parathyroid is that's just going to wipe them out. So if you just let them come, don't do things like that. >> They will, they will help contribute and do their, do their Services, which is often eaten a lot of the tests and keeping their populations down. >> So there's definitely a trade off. >> You get this by re-throw adverse neonicotinoids argument. And here's just a look at mammalian toxicity in case, case you didn't know or were wondering. Here's lambda psi, very popular pyrethroid. >> And there's emitted Collobert and admire. >> And there's your, there's your RET dermal and rat oral and the mnemonics are safer bottom line than than than a lot of the pyrethroids. And they're both highly toxic to, to be. >> So you're going without any of those insecticides. What are some other things that you can do early season for some of those insects, cucumber beetles, flea beetles. You can go with row covers dependent on the grower in their situation. >> This is something that is possible. >> There's some upfront costs, there's a lot of labor or storage or these things, but you're basically covering your plants and protecting them early on when, when they kind of need it the most. >> And you know, obviously you gotta take these things off at some point that definitely before flowering, but definitely when the plants just start to get some size to him and I usually can tolerate feeding by that point. >> So this is for smaller growers. >> This is a tactic that can >> Replace either of those insecticide uses. >> And I'm going to talk about a couple more things here. >> And one, is it ok? What if we go with a foliar spray? >> That one personally, I think we should have gotten rid of all foliar sprays of neonicotinoids. >> Just because I think the at planning systemic use of them makes so much sense. >> Pollinator protection and also effectiveness that why even bother with messing with spraying these things when, when plants could be blaming There are alternatives. >> A sale is a, is a different story. >> That's a that's a 100 times less toxic Bs much safer option. The spray is a foliar and you are starting to see a lot of chemicals come out that are very neo Nick like there in insecticide IRAC class for just like NEA next, but they're not considered. >> Neonicotinoids are a little bit different and Savant is one of those products. >> What are they bringing? >> Well, there are a lot less toxic, the B's, and then otherwise do a lot of the same things that neonicotinoids do. So these options are out there for fullier space. >> So aphids or another insect that was commonly killed by neonicotinoids. In just, I wanted to just put this went up. >> I'm not going to go through in detail, but there are so many glasses of chemistry now that control aphids extremely well. Aphids, white flies that are a lot more IPM friendly, a lot safer. So there's better things to be spraying than in a, as a, as a foliar. >> So I'm gonna end with one last slide here. >> I don't know how I've done with my time. >> Like I've done OK, that there's, there's a lot, a lot of new organic insecticides that are, that are coming out on the market. >> Mrs. really, really good for organic growers. Some exciting stuff. So I'm gonna end with that. >> And I went over to Steve. >> So what, what I want it to do today is talk a little bit about diseases. But since we don't have a lot of disease pressure right now and diseases is variable at times. What I was going to do is talk a little bit about resources and where you can find disease information. >> I'll send vegetables. >> We've added very little so far. Of course we've had some violent, some up perhaps not a couple of warnings if you haven't made your decision. So and which called the bars you're going to plant. This is a year when you want look at Barbara's resistance. For example, if you're a plant and tomatoes and an ear and tidewater, you probably want to get some tomatoes that are tomatoes spot. It will resist this, that if you're planning pumpkins, same thing. Basically the reasoning for this as we add and Tom touched on us, we really had a, a mild 1A and we had a lot more over-wintering insects than normal. And breezed insects means more viral issues. So >> Yeah, that's just kind of what happens. >> So pay and pay attention to that more than normal. I think just as importantly, and Tom touched on this as well as the need for seed treatments, wine just because of the insect part of it, but also for disease. We've been relatively warm, although our soul temperature probably gonna take a hit this weekend, but we've had a lot of moisture in the ground, so yeah, putting bear seeds or, or seeds wouldn't met almost seed treatments is probably going to result in some damping all four urgent issues this year. >> With that being said, you want to focus on sort of Betsy transplants. >> It really, y'know, as far as disease management goes, C, treatments are seats, are transplants resisting both the bars. These are things that really gets you going on a good start for the year. And finally, I just want to mention late blight Herbert down email. Do these are two really devastating diseases that we monitor as vegetable plant pathologist. And just want to let you know we do have any of those threats so far. Late blade is confined Florida, and quite frankly those are are kind of older older outbreaks. And then cucumber downy mildew is a report a most recently in South Georgia, but still quite a ways away from that. So that's what I had on, on disease. We of course monitor things and you need an alert. >> We'll send that out. >> Resource Overview of vegetable production in Virginia. This is a presentation that that Mark and I put together a few months to go. We get so many questions about our vegetable production gods. And Virginia and I just wanted to go over a little bit about them. One, this is the mid Atlantic commercial vegetable production. God, and this booklet is what I would consider our primary production got if you're growing commercial vegetables, this is the God that I would recommend you eat. >> A law saying. >> And you can see we're all involved in, as we do this in conjunction with the mid-Atlantic, pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland, West Virginia, in the basically a joint effort has been for so long as I can remember. You can go online and view this at the Virginia Tech VC portal. There it's updated yearly once i gets updated at static. But we only do the updates once a year for now, are then made change going forward though. And the other God is actually the south eastern vegetable production God. This is, it's a little bit wider range states Work on this. >> And some of these states actually have their own production gods and in conjunction with this. But this is a group that again, extends out to Texas, Oklahoma. >> We have people in Florida that they work on it as well, but we are involved in this production. God, both Tom and I actually went to this meeting last summer. That's also available on site. You can go access that as well. And it's updated annually also, but we actually have the ability to go and fix us make changes, do updates if need be. So one thing that I wanted to mention, particularly from a disease and insects standpoint, there's a major difference in these two books and how we less products and recommend products. And I get probably about 10-15 questions a year that are along these lines. The mid-Atlantic says this, but the Southeastern Guide says this. So I wanted to go over that a little bit today. The minute why Anna somethin listed in there, it it means that we have faith and those materials, while the southeast guys just list all materials that are labeled immoral. >> Gets her example. >> And that's in the mid Atlantic. >> We kinda lists things in order of f, c. So the best materials are going to be at the top or first listed first and then southeast. It's alphabetical. But we'll we'll go through this. I'm going to use cucumber daily amount. That is example very prolific disease that we have a lot of resistance problems. Well, so this snippet here is from the Mid-Atlantic, God under cucumbers. And you can see where we have a little bit of information about it and know it lists the materials that we recommend and the materials on top here, like around this ultra Iran man, these are the materials we felt best about as you go down that list. These are materials that we are less sure of or have less belief and work in the best. So if you'll get Cucumber, downy, mildew, and the southeastern God. They're going to list all the Prob a products that are labeled for down email. So these are all the products that they've ever had a label for cucumber down email. But I'll give the example of something that used to work, but they're resistance problems and that's quadrants. So if you look at the Southeastern God, and you just rely on looking at this listing, you would see quadrotors here, creditors hasn't worked and since 2003 on Cucumber down email do. But if you're used to in a minute why I got, and you look at the Southeastern God and you see quadrature, you think, oh, well they recommend it. Well, that's not the case. >> It's just listed there because it still has downy mildew. On the label. >> What you have to do in the southeastern God is go to accompany an efficacy t-table and try to find quadrants, which here's quadrats. And if you'll look under bounding melded says there's no control. >> So both gods are correct. >> It's just a different way in which you go about obtaining your information and you have to know where that is. And here's, you know, those are, are pesticides. But if you want to know about cultural practices for managing diseases, you basically have and enable some of them have, some don't. >> But here's an alternative management practices for Q carbides. >> And you could go in and you can actually see downy mildew. >> And you can see, okay, while change can implant does pretty good. That helps out destroying residue. You can kind of find what works resisting cultivars. And you get a pretty good idea of what some of your other practices besides fungicides are. That information is also in the mid-Atlantic. God is just contained within these paragraphs, these texts, paragraphs that you see perceiving listening. >> I've fungicides, just a few other differences. >> Southeastern God groups, crop types together. Cu curve, it says a single group, while the med line, it God separates out into five different sections. Cucumber, melon, watermelon, squash, and punk in southeastern god contains the following not found in the mid-Atlantic pops Jerusalem, artichoke. And submit TO mid-atlantic is your place to go to if you grow horseradish, leaked and strawberries is also found in the mid-Atlantic, got southeast. Now that's because most southeastern states have their own strawberry production. God too. So you know, the other thing to be cognisant of disease and insect pressure differs between the two reason regions, particularly based upon where you are. If you're in the Shenandoah Valley, you know, you're going to find some things in the southeastern God that you don't have to worry about and vice versa. If you're, you know, you're right on the North Carolina border, it's more likely that you will have some worksite pest problems. The other thing, as you know, resistance issues are a little bit more common than the south. So they may be taking into account resistance problem we do not have. So again, two bugs. One Commonwealth them foes fairly similar. You just have to be really careful and cognizant when you switch between the two out of the way that information is presented. The last few years we've, we've seen more utilizations both to these gods and guide. And a lot of questions and there's been some confusion. So one of the things that I focused on this webinar was to try to talk a little bit about this and, and get everybody up to speed on what's going on with them. You are a gardener or a homeowner and you You know, are not growing commercially, but of course, it's people's gardens are pretty serious. And Virginia, you know, we've we've had a long history of appreciating our gardens. So you have the home grounds and animals publication and that'll give you the recommendations that are specifically meant for, for homework. >> Some handrails. >> So I guess I'll move back real quick. We had a couple of questions and comments in the chat box. >> And I think some of the folks there, Tom COOH, HA, taylor Clark, they answered some questions for some folks in the chat box, but for those of you that are joining us via telephone and can't read the chat box. >> One of the questions was wheeled a cold snap this weekend. Do anything to insect populations? >> And I think Dr. cohort answer that as the coals bill now is not really going to be cold enough to harm most insects, so maybe not very effective on that. >> The second question was, how many cabbage maggot generations can we expect in a year? And that Cuckoo Haar answer that as well, as they have multiple generations, they can be a problem later in the year as well. And then the final question that we had in the chat box, I believe was the OR gate. Are there organic alternative pesticides for cute comparable potato beetles? And there was a response there that some of the Omri certifies but knows IT. >> Products such as in trust can work great. >> Hygienic doesn't stick around very long, less than a day's residual. So I guess, Dr. cohort, if you've got any questions you'd like to add to that comment? >> Feel free question comments now and I'll just continue to look P13, somebody's comments in the chat box to see what will be Apartment yeah. >> Kinda rated in their interests. If you're an organic grower, that is, that is one powerful naturally derived biological insecticide. And it really, it really works well against the lipid after invests, it's probably one of our best materials for corn earworm, definitely for an organic grower, because the BTS aren't, aren't working very well. So you get your lipid op turns, it's our number one insecticide for thrifts. And you know, things like the Colorado potato beetle, flea beetles very well. >> So it's just pick, just a really powerful tool for organic growers and all the other ones, you're going to see a big reduction in efficacy. >> You're gonna get a little bit, but it might be a challenge and you might need repeat applications. >> Some of the direct and type, some of the, some of the oils and things like that. So that's just kind of a general answer based on my experience with the organic insecticides in SEE also had a comment about the the listing of somebody insecticides in the, I guess the mid-Atlantic vegetable recommendation book, that that's a little bit different than some of the fungicides for diseases and stuff. >> Do you just want to touch on that real quick as well? >> Yeah. What I would like to say I liked I applaud the plant pathologists for listing there. >> They're fungicides in in order of how they believe would be the most effective. >> And moving down the line that the enum adjusts were asked to do that as well. And we basically said we don't put things in the book that don't work. >> So we're just kinda split hairs to pick one over the other. >> And it was more of a, more of an issue. >> And we've got this for a lot of these pests, we'd get like mnemonics and pyrethroids. >> And like they all work. So we just found it to be, I think it's a lot clearer, more clear in the, in some of these diseases like downy mildew, where you definitely get effective, effective, moderately effective, and then just not very effective, it all kind of, uh, so we didn't do that. >> And now we've got a book. >> It's got fungicides listed one way. >> And then when you look at the insecticides, we're wondering, you know, we don't want growers to say all. I'm going to use the first one listed because that's what they because that's actually a group one. >> We, we list them by insecticide class numerically. >> So group one is the, the organophosphates. So most of the time we don't want to be recommending those and they're listed first. >> And I realize it's probably logically not a good idea. >> So we're going to fix this stiff and I guess, yeah, the problem unless it's me and Tom below nameless. But you know that this group used to meet annually and and Newark, Delaware, and we used to meet as a group for weed science. All know wheat scientists were always broken off. They have another event, but we we met entomology, pathology, et cetera, and we've not done that in the last couple years. So I knew that they had or we had talked about you guys doing that, but honestly, I didn't now. >> So but yeah. >> So that's good to know so that we should get consolidated. And I say we've we've probably got to move more towards what you've done because I liked the logical nature of it. The let's put the best recommendation first. >> It's really tough. It's not easy to do that. And there are instances where what we kind of constructed Vienna was not always the case, sometimes too. So it's, it's not easy, but, but the, the main, the main thing I want to talk about today was just the difference between the two guys. Because that's really, as we've seen, the southeast GOD gained more traction than Virginia. We've really seen the problems associated with that are the confusion associated that shouldn't say problems. >> And as a C. >> We also had a comment there from taylor Clark recommending Rutgers hasn't God that's broken into sections and it could be easier for reference and with a phone. So thanks, Taylor. >> Appreciate that advice. >> If you're interested in that, you could probably find it online at Rutgers website. And then also I see we had one more comment from Taylor about using spin. >> No sids if we use at multiple times in a season is a concern of a resistance development. >> Could you touch on that a little bit, doctor? >> Kuo? Sure. >> Yeah, that's an excellent question. >> Well, one, the the label itself will prevent you from putting it out more than two or three times based on the rate that you use. There's a Mac so that you can, you can you can't get to. >> But the concern if you spray it on. So say you're planting a bunch of brassicas almost year round. In some instances you might have put it two times and one crop. And now your footnote on two times on this. And then now you got fall broccoli and you're going to put two time now you've just put that thing out multiple times. >> And yes, it absolutely is a concern for their number one insect we're worried about is done in black moths, which has in some places develop resistance to Spinoza. >> So That's a great question. >> Watch out with the brassicas of using that when too much. >> And it's always good to take chemistries. >> So yeah, really good point. >> I well, I guess it at this time, I guess with that, if you look in the chat box here, we've got a comment from Dr. Ride out. >> He says, another good resource for pesticides with update is updated labels. >> A CV MS.net at C, B M S.net. >> Thanks for that Docker rat out. >> I had used that a lot myself. >> And that is a really great resource. >> Yeah, it's it's it's the most up to date on, you know, they're, they're pretty good about us learning everything, right? >> Well, made a gain if a o for the home gone to this, the small gone that don't a lot of just hand plan of trials plan as well as brassicas or things that the NEA next would would be a benefit to? How would you suggest them utilize in the the the products like at mile in? >> I'm Ano from a research standpoint, we always just mixed up a solution, say array. And after we try as planets, the planets we ported around the planet. >> Is that something that in those situations would put we're yeah, absolutely. >> Of one. >> I will say that they do mixin >> Garden products. It's often a lot less concentrated than, than like an admired or some of the more commercial egg that trade off is, you know, in order to buy them, you're buying it. >> It's way, way more than any home gardener needs. Let's just say they got their hands on some yeah, absolutely. A good rule of thumb. And I'm I can't believe I'm saying this on error because it was just kind of adds to unmade that Harmon Hulk was a wise vegetable horticulturist when I was first started, got hired at the eastern shore, a wreck and he taught me want you know, I was wrestling with that because I was add these rate per acre on the pesticides. And then a homeowner would call they said they have some and they read a few plants. >> And unlike oh, geez, how do I owe me that? It's basically the ounces per acre is roughly equivalent of no mils per gallon. So if you look on that rate and it is given you of ounces per acre. If you mix that for like a home gardener, a gallon, again for putting in a water pill or something, then that, that, that works really well and it dies. That's about the right equivalent in kind of a rough, rough estimate. So That's what I've used. >> Again, these are some things that are that are to do. That is because a product that was sold was sold for commercial purposes, but it is what it is. >> We got one more question. There are, there are certain vegetable commodities where preventative tactics could or should be used to manage incoming or later season pests and gaiety. >> When, when you say pests and diseases are insects, but for diseases it's certainly the case. You know, prevention is a big part of what we do and disease control. So you need to have some form of preventative program in terms of preventing disease. Cultivar selection, again, is really big. I'm particularly if you're going to grow something like cucumbers in the fall, they will get absolutely annihilated with downy mildew and certain parts of the state to make sure that you use cultivars that are resistant or tower. And I should say today only mental lose important eat if you're growing fall cucumbers. And I think the viruses are really important to share. Habit seen that play out yet, but I would be surprised if we don't see it ticked up, I think and I both are wrong Gordon, and a little bit concerned or that you know, what we're going to have there. So there, there are a number of other ways you can do and the production gods have information both in those tables and southeastern God and also and the the narrative and the others in the minute boiling. Thank you, Dr. cuz aha, we really appreciate you and Dr. Ride alpha join us this morning and taking that opportunity to share these updates with producers. >> We I think we've got some on the phone with us this morning and we also record the so we'll post them out now for producers. >> If they happened to be in the field today, they can get this information later. >> But thank you both for joining us this morning. >> We appreciate your time. >> Alice. >> I'd like to take a couple of minutes to just thank all the other colleagues of mine, agents that I work with that help make this effort. >> Hospital, you, Stephanie Rommel, check and westmoreland, Trent Jones and North Lancaster County lower magazine a in Hanover. >> And Mike broadest, Caroline, just like to thank them for all their help. And this is a collaborative effort and we're glad that it's hopefully benefit some folks and just like to thank everyone that joined us this morning. >> You they've taken some time to come in and get these updates and you can ask your input calm, it helps everyone. >> Thanks. >> So you see they had the capacity to see the screen. >> We do have these every Thursday morning at 09:00 AM, so we'll continue to have those at least for the foreseeable future. >> You can either join us by phone or by online using the links there. >> I'd like to go ahead and announce we are going to have next week. Our topic is going to be weeds and an update from our WE specialist, Dr. Michael Flexner. >> So that's going to be our topic next week in our speaker for that. >> So I will thank you to everyone. We appreciate everything and I hope everyone in your family stay safe. If there's anything we can do for you, let us know and take can have a great rest of your week.